Canon 60D: what were they thinking?

Correct me if i'm wrong but this is just a rehash of old tech, with a tilting LCD slapped on? It even has the rubbish 50D AF?

7D too much ? 550D too little ? 60D it is. Seems legit to me.

Sure, if it was released two years ago. Canon are being Lazy.

Indeed, apart from the Canon EOS 550D Canon EOS 60D Canon EOS 7D Canon EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6L IS USM Canon EF 8-15mm f/4 L USM Canon EF 300mm f/2.8 L IS II USM Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II USM Canon EF 500mm F/4L IS II USM Canon EF 600mm F/4L IS II USM Canon EF Extender 1.4x III Canon EF Extender 2x III ... They have been sitting on their asses.

Wow, what a nice selection of glass for photographing sparrow nipples from 200m away!

Jens your insight is astounding, i wish Canon did listen to you, and not just consider you 'just another never satisfied customer on the internet'

Definitely only good for sparrow nipples.... http://www.pbase.com/cameras/canon/ef_400_28is
Jens_G wrote: Wow, what a nice selection of glass for photographing sparrow nipples from 200m away!

And 5D Mark II

I have the same thoughts about 60D, Jens. -- Mike the Viking

One thing's for sure- Canon loves to screw around with naming conventions. I think what we're seeing here is the new trend away from the semi-pro market (meaning someone who makes a little money from photos, or a pro whose main medium is something other than-). Like Apple, Canon is seeing much more profit from consumer markets, and so they want to squeeze the product lines toward a logical upgrade for them. The Rebels (x50D) were getting too advanced, and the x0D too well-built, so they're turning both lines around. This isn't "filling a gap" so much as widening or making a new gap. It's gaps that sell products, making people unsure which model is right for them, never making the ideal model for anyone. So now what? As a pro, who uses the 5Dii as a main 35mm, what's a good cheap dirty backup? The 7D was made for me, but I don't have one because the price was too high. Now that the x0D isn't an option, I have to shell out more for the 7D. But wait, that's just as heavy and bulky as my 5Dii, so what's the point? New gap, confusion, bad news. What makes sense to the buyer doesn't make sense to the seller, because we want to save money and have the ideal camera, and they want to make more money and sell us several un-ideal cameras. They should have continued the lines as they were, improving the rebels and x0D equally. Now they stagnate one and reverse the other. What's next?

They weren't thinking that's the problem! Looks like a huge gaff for Canon and a missed chance to strengthen the line-up. Get your 50d's while you can!

Jens_G wrote: Correct me if i'm wrong but this is just a rehash of old tech, with a tilting LCD slapped on? It even has the rubbish 50D AF?
Canon did what they thought necessary to position it more directly between the 7D & 550D. It does get the wireless flash control, though it appears to be crippled a bit (no support for multiple flashes), as well as the 7D video mode. It's obviously meant to be very tempting for Rebel users with the use of SD cards, though to me that is the biggest disappointment. I was going to look to the 60D as a backup to the 7D, but not with different memory cards. Mark

Jens_G wrote: what were they thinking?
They??e thinking that Nikon is selling a helluva lot of D90s. They want a piece of that action. .

Graystar wrote: They??e thinking that Nikon is selling a helluva lot of D90s. They want a piece of that action. .
The D90 is being updated in a few weeks. If I were a gambling man I'd say Nikon will dominate this sector now (if they do a proper update and don't mess up) The D90 is viewed as a semi pro body..and the successor will be too. Nobody will think of the 60d being in this class.

Barry Fitzgerald wrote: The D90 is viewed as a semi pro body..and the successor will be too. Nobody will think of the 60d being in this class.
It doesn't need to be. It only needs to give the army of XTi/XSi owners out there a no-brainer upgrade path. Canon is going to sell tons of 60Ds. .

Graystar wrote: It doesn't need to be. It only needs to give the army of XTi/XSi owners out there a no-brainer upgrade path.
Competition is heating up nicely..
Canon is going to sell tons of 60Ds. .
Not at ?1000 they won't 50d ?700 ish right now 7d only a bit more.. Sure the price will drop but it would want to drop hugely for the 60d to make any sense. Bad move taking the joystick out as well.

Barry Fitzgerald wrote:
Graystar wrote: It doesn't need to be. It only needs to give the army of XTi/XSi owners out there a no-brainer upgrade path.
Competition is heating up nicely..
Canon is going to sell tons of 60Ds.
yep, sure will.
.
Not at ?1000 they won't
USA pricing is $1099. 7D is $1550.
50d ?700 ish right now 7d only a bit more.. Sure the price will drop but it would want to drop hugely for the 60d to make any sense. Bad move taking the joystick out as well.

I love this news! For me it implies the 7D will see a major price drop to appease the serious 50D upgraders!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Graystar wrote:
Barry Fitzgerald wrote: The D90 is viewed as a semi pro body..and the successor will be too. Nobody will think of the 60d being in this class.
It doesn't need to be. It only needs to give the army of XTi/XSi owners out there a no-brainer upgrade path. Canon is going to sell tons of 60Ds.
Probably, but they would have sold lots of 600Ds too...that's what I think it is. W/O a metal skin, it can't be an xxD camera! Perhaps this ploy is designed to catch both the xxD and xxxD customer wanting to move up? I guess bringing out the same camera and calling it a 600D was too obvious?

It doesn't need to be. It only needs to give the army of XTi/XSi owners out there a no-brainer upgrade path. Canon is going to sell tons of 60Ds. .
As a previous Rebel user, the release of the 60D was taking way to long and I decided to purchase the 50D instead. I'm glad I did and that I didn't wait for the 60D release, I would have not purchased it. Not all past Rebel users are going to see this as an reasonable upgrage to the next level of cameras.

Graystar wrote:
Barry Fitzgerald wrote: The D90 is viewed as a semi pro body..and the successor will be too. Nobody will think of the 60d being in this class.
It doesn't need to be. It only needs to give the army of XTi/XSi owners out there a no-brainer upgrade path . Canon is going to sell tons of 60Ds.
Then Canon failed on the no-brainer part. The articulating LCD helps show that the 60D is a model for those for whom video is very important. Well, if you're a video-using Rebel user with just one or two low-priced Canon lenses, what's holding you back from upgrading to the model that has full-time video autofocus...the Nikon D3100? I own a 7D primarily for stills, and the manual focus in video is a pain in the butt for any shot where distance to subject will change during the shot. A lot of people will notice that Canon could not match Nikon's move here.

I am glad to see that they made the body smaller and lighter though. I think the 50D is just too bulky if you are on foot for long periods of time. It looks like they've removed the weather sealing though. I wonder if they'll lower the price in the absence of the heavy duty construction. Also, it doesn't seem to have the video AF unless I overlooked something.

I'm surprised at how important the metal body is to some people. Other than that, this camera fits right in between the 7D and 550D. Seems like a great lightweight backup camera for pros with pro controls, wireless flash control, electronic level, 50D AF.... I'm most disappointed that the technology in the camera is over a year old (Same sensor and processor as the 7D + 550D). Seems like it should have been out sooner. That being said its still class leading technology.

Barry Fitzgerald wrote:
Graystar wrote: They??e thinking that Nikon is selling a helluva lot of D90s. They want a piece of that action. .
The D90 is being updated in a few weeks. If I were a gambling man I'd say Nikon will dominate this sector now (if they do a proper update and don't mess up)
It seems that nikon is turning the d90 into the d300s replacement and calling it the d7000 to have much easier model names to follow: d3000/5000/7000. d300 will either die or be turned into a entry level FF model so they can bring out the d710 as high MP FF.
The D90 is viewed as a semi pro body..and the successor will be too. Nobody will think of the 60d being in this class.
That's funny because "semi-pro" means different things to different people. Some will say that any SLR camera is semi-pro, honestly!

I'm bound to canon because of all my lens. Missing auto focus in video is a total let down since it's just been announced in the latest releases from Nikon and Sony. Canon will lose new users this time around because the Nikon is on a roll with new features. I'm a 5D2 owner but the specs on this new canon compared with a nikon equivalent are very unimpressive. Catch up canon!

crustyjuggler66 wrote: I'm bound to canon because of all my lens. Missing auto focus in video is a total let down since it's just been announced in the latest releases from Nikon and Sony. Canon will lose new users this time around because the Nikon is on a roll with new features. I'm a 5D2 owner but the specs on this new canon compared with a nikon equivalent are very unimpressive. Catch up canon!
It's never to late,there a million + canon people who believe canon the Holy Grail.

it always amazes me how so many overlook the extreme flexibility a tilting lcd like this one offers. oly had them, but no video. nikon and sony have different tilt designs which are basically rubbish. the GH1 has one but is as big as a small DSLR. had i not bought an e-p2, this 60D would be taken into consideration immediately.

aphextwin wrote: it always amazes me how so many overlook the extreme flexibility a tilting lcd like this one offers. oly had them, but no video. nikon and sony have different tilt designs which are basically rubbish. the GH1 has one but is as big as a small DSLR. had i not bought an e-p2, this 60D would be taken into consideration immediately.
I like the tilt LCD myself. I am not a video shooter, nor likely to be one in the future (never say never, of course). My reason for liking it is a pair of seriously bad knees that make it extremely difficult to get down behind the camera for lower level shots. I can do it, with knee pads, but it's very unpleasant for me, and I'd guess, for anyone watching me struggle upwards after the shot. I plan to get at least one knee replacement in a couple of months, so I may like tilting LCDs less then, but I doubt it. It has a lot of uses in the shooting I do, everything from framing the back end of a vehicle engine compartment before clicking the shutter, to the aforementioned low level, and to higher level shots taken when you're already as far up the stepladder as a sane person goes.

Charlie Self wrote: I plan to get at least one knee replacement in a couple of months, so I may like tilting LCDs less then, but I doubt it. It has a lot of uses in the shooting I do, everything from framing the back end of a vehicle engine compartment before clicking the shutter, to the aforementioned low level, and to higher level shots taken when you're already as far up the stepladder as a sane person goes.
I have good knees and whenever I turn on the 7D video or do an overhead crowd still shot, I wish the 7D had the articulating screen.

graybalanced wrote:
Charlie Self wrote: I plan to get at least one knee replacement in a couple of months, so I may like tilting LCDs less then, but I doubt it. It has a lot of uses in the shooting I do, everything from framing the back end of a vehicle engine compartment before clicking the shutter, to the aforementioned low level, and to higher level shots taken when you're already as far up the stepladder as a sane person goes.
I have good knees and whenever I turn on the 7D video or do an overhead crowd still shot, I wish the 7D had the articulating screen.
I agree I would love a articulating screen on my 7D, but what I really want is Canon to start putting some serious effort on Live View AF. This really is the only item that I find lacking on my 7D.

Agree This camera is in a word "LATE" The 7d should have had the tilt/swiv screen The 60d should have kept the joystick and as for going with the SD and NOT both SD and CF is IMHO not too good a move. -- Knocker

It looks like Canon decided Nikon had a nicer set of product classes.

Joseph S Wisniewski wrote: It looks like Canon decided Nikon had a nicer set of product classes.

Looks like a great camera. Nice size, weight, screen, sensor, AF, meter, wireless flash transmitter, etc.. What else do you need? Only the absence of the AF micro-adjustment is surprising.

I don't get your comment on the 50D AF. I don't have a 50D but I do have a 40D and I have used the camera for tons of very fast action sports (both indoor and outdoor). I have never had a problem catching the action with the 40D AF system. From everything I have seen and read the 50D is an improvement. For a camera that will probably have a realistic street price in a few months under $1K the camera looks very good. The camera is a great option for Canon shooters who want more than a Rebel and less than a 7D. Maybe $4-500 is not much for you, but it is a big difference for many buyers. Always fun to hear from the Canon boo birds. I was one when the 30D came out and when Nikon released the 300D with no answer from Canon, but now I don't see a problem with the Canon line-up. Plus adds several nice features - Wireless flash - I use this on my 7D quite a bit and the Auto ISO feature looks like the best implementation yet. The plastic body? no problem by me, I loved my EOS 3's body. I think the size and weight may make this a good additional body for me. I may eventually add one. I could see sometimes where it would be nice to have. I will say I have one gripe on Canon - they need to get off their but and figure out a good system for live view AF. Great having a articulated LCD but without a decent fast and reliable Live view and movie AF I don't see the point.
Jens_G wrote: Correct me if i'm wrong but this is just a rehash of old tech, with a tilting LCD slapped on? It even has the rubbish 50D AF?

Jens_G wrote: Correct me if i'm wrong but this is just a rehash of old tech, with a tilting LCD slapped on? It even has the rubbish 50D AF?
Also, took out the 50D AF microadjust and changed to plastic body. So, it isn't just a rehash of 50D tech.

I wonder why it's OK to have a semi-pro plastic body (D90), but when Canon deviates from the norm to a plastic body in the 60D, all of a sudden the sky is falling. I am actually dissapointed that it isn't mag-alloy too, but I'm not going to rule it out to go with my 20D. It just might hold me over until that $2,000 full-frame Canon body arrives in a year or two.

You only have yourselves to blame, how many posts have I read on this forum asking for a new model, or surmising what the next model might have or not have and what it should or shouldn't have. We don't need 75% of the new models that come out but you guys keep asking for them. And when they come along, you're not happy. I laugh. Jules
Jens_G wrote: Correct me if i'm wrong but this is just a rehash of old tech, with a tilting LCD slapped on? It even has the rubbish 50D AF?

I think it sounds great. Plastic is genius - I do NOT want to carry 1000 kilos every time I want to take a pic. It seems smaller than the older xxd - hooray! I have longish hands and fingers, yet struggled to reach some of the buttons on the 50d. I'm ADDICTED to the swivel screen - but that's on a P&S. Not sure of the application on a dslr, but I'm sure I'd learn and find a use!

Monviso View wrote: I'm ADDICTED to the swivel screen - but that's on a P&S. Not sure of the application on a dslr, but I'm sure I'd learn and find a use!
Video

The 3 hit combo entry level - prosumer - pro is not good enough anymore. To squeeze a little bit more out of the market they need to extend their entry level line. This is exactly what happens. They got the a bare bone, a "real" entry level with a little more features, and then a even better entry level without being too heavy too big. That will be the new marketing position for the 60D. Most consumers complaints the DSLR being too big too heavy for traveling. They want to look "pro", but won't spend too much. They have been shooting with a P&S or an entry level DSLR for some time now and only used SD cards. Canon carefully split the 50D target customers into 2 groups, the ones who are at the 5DII level, want a faster APS-c body but not moving up to 1D4 yet. And then there is the 550D/50D upgrader who doesn't want to play a lot more, thinking the old 50D is heavy, and doesn't care if metal case would mean a lot, etc.

And they left nothing in the middle of the pack for people like me. Hence, I'm hoping that the D7000 becomes all it's purported to be.

It may sound OT but Guys - is it possible the WB button has disappeared from the body??? That would be a real joke or I just missed it?

Yes, it's gone.....gotta buy a 7D for that!

That would mean 60D's competitor in nikon's lineup is not D90 or its coming replacement but d5000. LOL.

In my dreams I have got the 60D and I very much enjoy using it . Its better than anything I have had in reality , and so I just keep on dreaming . -- Roygbiv

I think a lot of 40D and 50D owners wanted an upgrade without having to pay the 7D price. And the 60D is an upgrade in some ways... but a downgrade in others. There is no doubt Canon could have made the 60D into a "cheaper 7D" but instead they chose to reposition it as a "better 550D," and thereby NOT kill the market for their popular and very profitable 7D. From a business perspective they had no choice. They had to remove a few features from the 60D, or risk undercutting the sales of their 7D model. On paper, the 60D specs are a lot closer to the 7D than they are to the 50D specs. And now you can get whatever you want if you are willing to pay a little more. It's called product differentiation. Is it worth $250 more to move up to the 7D for the magnesium body, higher frame rate, weather sealing, and better viewfinder? Some certainly would say yes. Is the 50D a better deal at $400 less than the 60D? I think most people shopping for this type of camera would want the newer technology, HD video, and higher resolution of the 60D, at a higher price than the 50D. It is true they lose a couple of the 50D features, but those features are still there in the 7D. The Canon problem is having NINE dSLRs currently available, and they MUST make each one a little different from the ones on both sides of it so it will appeal to someone. So they have no choice other than adding and removing features in order to get a sensible cost/value ratio at each price point. I imagine Sony has the very same problem since they offer at least that many dSLRs currently. I suppose Olympus and Pentax just don't have this problem. Many of us wish they did. -- Marty http://www.fluidr.com/photos/marty4650/sets/72157606210120132 http://www.flickr.com/photos/marty4650/sets/72157606210120132/show/ Olympus E-30 Olympus E-P1 View: original size

They should have renamed the camera then, if they're going to reposition it. They should admit that they've killed the xxD line. Not only are they cowards, they are greedy cowards.

Photog23 wrote: They should have renamed the camera then, if they're going to reposition it. They should admit that they've killed the xxD line. Not only are they cowards, they are greedy cowards.
Like I said in my previous post in this thread, somebody in marketing simply forgot to put one of the zeros in the model designation. I'm sure they are reassigned to the Canon toaster division... How much would it have cost them to have two, virtually identical models: The 600D and the 60D. They could price the 60D a bit higher...

Photog23 wrote: They should have renamed the camera then, if they're going to reposition it. They should admit that they've killed the xxD line. Not only are they cowards, they are greedy cowards.
The xxD was effectively repositioned when the 7D was announced. Like some people have already written, Canon did some market research and found out that Nikon had better product classes in the consumer / enthusiast / semipro segments. Now the classes are nicely matched: D3100 vs. 1000D D5000 vs. 550D D90 vs. 60D D300s vs. 7D Although obviously not all the models above are of exactly the same generation right now.

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